hgr: (Default)
[personal profile] hgr
Алексей Ильич Осипов -- о митрополите Антонии Сурожском, Василии Кривошеине, Софронии Сахарове. очень верно, по-моему. да и про запад я думаю, приблизительно, то же самое (православные могут принимать западную культуру только в том случае, если они с ней будут обращаться, как японцы: вашу технологию берем, а вас самих не надо).



via [livejournal.com profile] comandante1.

еще подумалось, что Осипов тоже вроде поколнеия Мейендорфа: из тех, кто сделали огромные рывки, чтобы вырваться из болота экуменического "мирового православия", вытащив до своего уровня очень многих; но им самим сил уже не хватило, чтобы вырваться по-настоящему. немножко похоже на тех античных философов, которых посчитали позже "христианами до Христа".

Date: 2011-01-29 08:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hgr.livejournal.com
любой МПшник учит чему-нибудь непотребному. мы любим их не за это.

Date: 2011-01-29 08:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 3ilot.livejournal.com
Жжоте.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] be-it-so.livejournal.com
Ну, Мейендорф непотребному о Евхаристии и о других вещах того же уровня важности не учил.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birr.livejournal.com
Мейендорф учил персонализму.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] be-it-so.livejournal.com
Святоотеческую критику персонализма - в студию ))

Date: 2011-01-29 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] be-it-so.livejournal.com
Да, действительно, зачем... если нет аргументов.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birr.livejournal.com
аргументов о чем?

Date: 2011-01-29 09:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ebarkar.livejournal.com
а это хорошо или плохо с твоей точки зрения?
PS: ИМХО, это хорошо

Date: 2011-01-29 09:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birr.livejournal.com
хорошо или плохо - смотря для кого.
для богословия плохо быть персоналистичным, т.к. это дурная философия, а хорошего богословия не может быть сварено на плохой философии.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ebarkar.livejournal.com
ОК!
Спасибо. Извиняюсь за наивный вопрос, а что именно плохого в персонализме?

Date: 2011-01-29 09:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birr.livejournal.com
персонализм считает, что единичное онтологически первее общего (и соответственно, личность - природы).
но это ж мракобесный бред!)

Date: 2011-01-29 09:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shvetsov0711.livejournal.com
Да неужели? Природа онтологически первее личности? Это-ж модалистский бред.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birr.livejournal.com
*Природа онтологически первее личности
-----
Вы сказали.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shvetsov0711.livejournal.com
Скажите по-своему.

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Date: 2011-01-29 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] krutitsy.livejournal.com
О Евхаристии он учил похожим образом (см. его "Византийское богословие", или написанную под его руководством статью Эриксона "Квасной хлеб или опресноки"- кажется, так), о наследии Адама тоже, параллели есть и в христологии и сотириологии. Просто Мейендорф намного образованней.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slon357.livejournal.com
Да ну, "любой".
Я не, например.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hgr.livejournal.com
так Вы же в прелести. Вы верите в собственное мистическое откровение о святости собственной церковной организации.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] be-it-so.livejournal.com
Вы точно так же верите в то, что та организация, в которой Вы пребываете, - есть Церковь.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hgr.livejournal.com
это не о том. Вы просто не знаете нашего со slon88 контекста.

Date: 2011-01-29 09:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slon357.livejournal.com
Неа, некорректная формулировка.
А насчёт "в перелести" - это да, есть такое дело. Ну так, а кто не в прелести? Вы тоже в прелести, и Осипов в прелести, и ваще все. Мож, святые какие-нибудь не в прелести. И то, неизвестно, то-ли перманентно, то ли временами...

Date: 2011-01-29 09:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hgr.livejournal.com
да, некорректная. если корректно, то лично я знаю только одного человека в прелести, и это не Вы.

а если про то, что Вы увидели, что именно та *организация*, в которую Вы пришли, -- это Церковь, то тут мы несогласны.

то тут мы несогласны.

Date: 2011-01-29 10:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] victor-a-k.livejournal.com
но нам это то пофиг...бггг
From: [identity profile] shvetsov0711.livejournal.com
Стесняюсь спросить...
http://hristov.narod.ru/raf01.jpg Это он?
From: [identity profile] hgr.livejournal.com
нет, этого я не знаю (т.е. знаю только по имени).

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